Kittens & Alligators...

[there's a lot of innocent people being crucified]

I read a newspaper story the other day about a man charged with animal
cruelty for trying to feed a kitten to an alligator (the kitten survived).
Now I just love cats, but I can't see what would be illegal about this,
or what is particularly "cruel" about it. I have a pet gopher snake and
every week or two he gets a meal of 6 or so live adult mice. Why is it
okay to feed live mice but not live cats to reptiles?

Similarly, my state legislature was recently busy trying to draft laws
that would ban slaughtering horses for human consumption. I like
horses just fine, but don't see what the difference is between a horse
and a cow that horses should be protected from being eaten. Keep in
mind that there was never any attempt to ban slaughtering horses for
ANIMAL consumption (e.g. dog food), it was the fact that PEOPLE were
eating them that made the act of slaughtering them "cruel." Just the
other day the newspaper was reporting how a bunch of animal rights
nazis were opposing a plan to send old horses to slaughterhouses,
the activists argued that the horses should be "humanely" euthanized
and given proper burials (!) - apparently that isn't cruel but
eating the flesh of that same dead horse is cruel. Oh, and the U.S.
Congress just proposed a bill that would prohibit federal
inspection of horse meat, essentially making the meat unsellable
in the U.S. market even if the actual slaughter of horses remains
legal.

My question is whether an animal's protected status is based on any
criteria other than its cuteness. Kittens are cuter than mice,
therefore they can't be food for hungry reptiles, while mice aren't
quite so cute so therefore you can feed as many of them as you want
to reptiles.

[GreyWyvern]

And lo, there's a lot of innocent people being crucified didst speak in

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
Just the
other day the newspaper was reporting how a bunch of animal rights
nazis were opposing a plan to send old horses to slaughterhouses,
the activists argued that the horses should be "humanely" euthanized
and given proper burials (!)

You know who should be euthanized? PETA, that's who. My parents
immigrated to Canada from the Netherlands, and as such I'm used to many
Dutch foods. One of them is horse meat. There is no difference between
horses and other food animals besides the fact that we ride some of them,
and bet on them at the race track.

But most of us westerners have the prejudice, if you really think about
it. Would you eat dog meat? Would you allow dog meat to become a
federally regulated meat source for human consumption? Other cultures
allow it, why not western cultures? Is it because they're relatively
intelligent compared to other animals? If so, studies have shown that
many breeds of pigs are even smarter than dogs, yet we still eat bacon
each morning...

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
My question is whether an animal's protected status is based on any
criteria other than its cuteness.

You're wording is wrong here. There's a difference between "protected
status" and "harvestable status". If a species is granted "protected
status", it's usually because their numbers have dropped dangerously low.
In this case, cuteness is only a factor in getting the existing protection
known by the public.

OTOH, "harvestable" is based pretty much entirely on "cuteness" and
cultural prejudices. "Harvestable" can have several meanings: for food,
as food for other animals, for resources, etc. However, if a species is
cute, you'll hear the outcry.

For instance, up north seals are a plague on fisheries, especially Native
American fisheries which don't have the equipment the big boys do. Seals
are by no means endangered, they're actually over plentiful, having very
few natural predators. As well, full grown seals aren't very attractive:
big tubs of blubber ungainly hauling themselves across the ice.
Unfortunately, their young are outrageously cute "li'l white furballs",
and just a few videos of fishermen clubbing them is all it takes to pull
at heartstrings everywhere.

In some prairie states in the US, it's legal to hunt gophers for sport
because they multiply so quickly and are a danger to crops and livestock.
It's a seasonal thing, usually starting in the spring, IIRC. Every year,
there's also the regular outcry of people who have only just heard of the
practice... and those gophers are cute!
<Loading Image...> OMG, how could you
shoot them??? :P

The same sort of thing goes on in Australia AFAIK. Just ask any
Austrailian about rabbits.

Grey

[Ulrik Smed]

Post by GreyWyvern
But most of us westerners have the prejudice, if you really
think about it. Would you eat dog meat? Would you allow dog
meat to become a federally regulated meat source for human
consumption?

I wouldn't like it. Hurts peoples' feelings too much.

[benstern]

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

Post by Ulrik Smed

Post by GreyWyvern
But most of us westerners have the prejudice, if you really
think about it. Would you eat dog meat? Would you allow dog
meat to become a federally regulated meat source for human
consumption?

I wouldn't like it. Hurts peoples' feelings too much.

i would eat dog meat! too many of them, plus I HATE them! heck, I'll eat
paris hilton's dog! YUM!

[athos76]

I for one have had dog meat... at the my friend's grandmother's 90th
b-day celebration. Traditional Korean family. You know what...dog is
good... Akita meat...MMmmM.
As for the slaughter of horses... Who cares? You force the thing to
be ridden its whole life, sometimes whipping it to run faster.. but
killing one to make use of it for dog food or even people food is
cruel?
What about the 2 PETA punks arrested for dumping dead dogs and cats
in a dumpster outside a store... (I'll look for the link.)
I have tried most exotic foods out there, dog to bugs to kangaroo...
I mention bugs first people go Ewww... I mention kangaroo or dog and
they call me a bastard and "how could I?" You know how? Stick it in my
mouth and chew...

[Ulrik Smed]

Post by athos76
I mention bugs first people go Ewww... I mention kangaroo or
dog and they call me a bastard and "how could I?" You know
how? Stick it in my mouth and chew...

How about this? Think I'll try it next time I eat meat.
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

[MD 20/20]

Post by GreyWyvern
You know who should be euthanized? PETA, that's who. My parents
immigrated to Canada from the Netherlands, and as such I'm used to many
Dutch foods. One of them is horse meat. There is no difference between
horses and other food animals besides the fact that we ride some of them,
and bet on them at the race track.

How does the taste of horsemeat differ from beef?

Just curious

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by MD 20/20
How does the taste of horsemeat differ from beef?
Just curious

It tastes like chicken. Didn't you know everything tastes like chicken?

Not at all. It's more like a slightly sweetish kind of beef. Can be
stringy if not prepared properly, but it's considered fairly standard
fare on French menus.
--scott

[Matthew L. Martin]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by MD 20/20
How does the taste of horsemeat differ from beef?
Just curious

It tastes like chicken. Didn't you know everything tastes like chicken?

Not at all. It's more like a slightly sweetish kind of beef. Can be
stringy if not prepared properly, but it's considered fairly standard
fare on French menus.

It is generally very lean. If you are grilling or roasting horse you
might want to add some beef or pork fat. Bacon would be good.

Matthew

[Mark South]

What is the technical term for "horse meat"? Is there a term akin to "mutton"
or "beef" which applies to horse flesh?!!

Yes. Cheval. To give the cavalier reply.

[phy]

Post by GreyWyvern
You know who should be euthanized? PETA, that's who. My parents
immigrated to Canada from the Netherlands, and as such I'm used to
many Dutch foods. One of them is horse meat. There is no difference
between horses and other food animals besides the fact that we ride
some of them, and bet on them at the race track.
But most of us westerners have the prejudice,

I think the answer to part of the attachment to horses might lie in
history. For years horses were the most efficient mode of transportation.
How could someone not own, ride and depend on a horse for years and not
come emotionally attached. Then also, horses were more valued as beasts of
burden and not traditional food animals. Most people around here when they
want meat, they think about cows, pigs, chicken and McDonalds. So I think
it is a cultural thing. Also people who support PETA are stupid and should
be laughed at and ridiculed.

-phy

[Jason and Holly Harper]

Well now I could see if maybe a kitten was just wandering around a swamp and
came across an alligator, but it sure doesn't seem like it should be legal
to feed gators period. As for the live mice that you feed your snake, I'm a
rat owner, and I do understand the food chain, but I do prefer people to
feed pre-killed rodents. Safer for the snake. In fact I believe it's
illegal in some places to feed live rodents. Now for me, it would be a
personal preference I'd rather see a snake eat a dead mouse than a live one.
It would just bother me too much. But that's another discussion I suppose.
;-) FWIW, I don't think slaughtering horses for meat is cruel either. Do I
support it and would I eat it? No. But if it's done humanely then what
would be cruel about it?

Holly

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
I read a newspaper story the other day about a man charged with animal
cruelty for trying to feed a kitten to an alligator (the kitten survived).
Now I just love cats, but I can't see what would be illegal about this,
or what is particularly "cruel" about it. I have a pet gopher snake and
every week or two he gets a meal of 6 or so live adult mice. Why is it
okay to feed live mice but not live cats to reptiles?
Similarly, my state legislature was recently busy trying to draft laws
that would ban slaughtering horses for human consumption. I like
horses just fine, but don't see what the difference is between a horse
and a cow that horses should be protected from being eaten. Keep in
mind that there was never any attempt to ban slaughtering horses for
ANIMAL consumption (e.g. dog food), it was the fact that PEOPLE were
eating them that made the act of slaughtering them "cruel." Just the
other day the newspaper was reporting how a bunch of animal rights
nazis were opposing a plan to send old horses to slaughterhouses,
the activists argued that the horses should be "humanely" euthanized
and given proper burials (!) - apparently that isn't cruel but
eating the flesh of that same dead horse is cruel. Oh, and the U.S.
Congress just proposed a bill that would prohibit federal
inspection of horse meat, essentially making the meat unsellable
in the U.S. market even if the actual slaughter of horses remains
legal.
My question is whether an animal's protected status is based on any
criteria other than its cuteness. Kittens are cuter than mice,
therefore they can't be food for hungry reptiles, while mice aren't
quite so cute so therefore you can feed as many of them as you want
to reptiles.

[~*LiveLoveLaugh*~]

Post by Jason and Holly Harper
Well now I could see if maybe a kitten was just wandering around a swamp and
came across an alligator, but it sure doesn't seem like it should be legal
to feed gators period. As for the live mice that you feed your snake, I'm a
rat owner, and I do understand the food chain, but I do prefer people to
feed pre-killed rodents. Safer for the snake. In fact I believe it's
illegal in some places to feed live rodents. Now for me, it would be a
personal preference I'd rather see a snake eat a dead mouse than a live one.
It would just bother me too much. But that's another discussion I suppose.
;-) FWIW, I don't think slaughtering horses for meat is cruel either. Do I
support it and would I eat it? No. But if it's done humanely then what
would be cruel about it?
Holly

It is NOT done humanely.

http://www.justsaywhoa.org/

http://www.sharkonline.org/horseslaughter.mv (Go to bottom and watch each
video... if you can)

http://www.slaughterhallofshame.com/shame/modules.php?name=Surveys&op=results&pollID=2
<--- :o))))
--
·.·Žš š)) -:Š:-
ž.·Ž .·Žšš))
Laurie
((žž.·Ž ..·Ž
-:Š:- ((žž ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~* Aloha!!!!!

"There is no remedy for love but to love more"...
~~Henry David Thoreau

Post by Jason and Holly Harper

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
I read a newspaper story the other day about a man charged with animal
cruelty for trying to feed a kitten to an alligator (the kitten survived).
Now I just love cats, but I can't see what would be illegal about this,
or what is particularly "cruel" about it. I have a pet gopher snake and
every week or two he gets a meal of 6 or so live adult mice. Why is it
okay to feed live mice but not live cats to reptiles?
Similarly, my state legislature was recently busy trying to draft laws
that would ban slaughtering horses for human consumption. I like
horses just fine, but don't see what the difference is between a horse
and a cow that horses should be protected from being eaten. Keep in
mind that there was never any attempt to ban slaughtering horses for
ANIMAL consumption (e.g. dog food), it was the fact that PEOPLE were
eating them that made the act of slaughtering them "cruel." Just the
other day the newspaper was reporting how a bunch of animal rights
nazis were opposing a plan to send old horses to slaughterhouses,
the activists argued that the horses should be "humanely" euthanized
and given proper burials (!) - apparently that isn't cruel but
eating the flesh of that same dead horse is cruel. Oh, and the U.S.
Congress just proposed a bill that would prohibit federal
inspection of horse meat, essentially making the meat unsellable
in the U.S. market even if the actual slaughter of horses remains
legal.
My question is whether an animal's protected status is based on any
criteria other than its cuteness. Kittens are cuter than mice,
therefore they can't be food for hungry reptiles, while mice aren't
quite so cute so therefore you can feed as many of them as you want
to reptiles.

[GreyWyvern]

And lo, ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~ didst speak in

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
It is NOT done humanely.
[snip incendiary propaganda]

Ho ho ho. You can't just toss around a few websites and videos and by
that accuse the entire industry. Certainly there are "rogue"
slaughterhouses out there which do the same to cows, pigs, etc. All of
this is under regulation and they *will* be charged, no matter *what*
animal they do this sort of thing to.

Did you know that pigs slaughtered under stress ruin the taste of the
meat? It's true, adrenal-like activators released into their bloodstream
make them taste horrible. And most certainly mechanical damage such as
bruising or injury can easily become the difference between a porterhouse
steak and stewing meat. Here's something to get through that thickened
PETA clouded skull of yours:

It is to a distributor's *benefit* that animals are slaughtered as
painlessly and stress-lessly as possible. Bruising during falls, damage
via injury, or chemical change via stress-related hormones *decrease* the
quality of any meat they may acquire from the carcass. Decreased quality
translates to decreased profit margin.

But you have fun showing everyone your videos. Sadly, most people will
believe this sort of thing happens everywhere. I do have one question for
you though... have *you* ever visited a commercial slaughterhouse? I mean
you *personally*, not something you heard from a "friend" or watched on a
documentary. Until you have, I can honestly say you know *less* than
nothing about the industry.

Grey

[JohnnyMrNinja]

Post by GreyWyvern
And lo, ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~ didst speak in

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
It is NOT done humanely.
[snip incendiary propaganda]

Ho ho ho. You can't just toss around a few websites and videos and by
that accuse the entire industry. Certainly there are "rogue"
slaughterhouses out there which do the same to cows, pigs, etc. All of
this is under regulation and they *will* be charged, no matter *what*
animal they do this sort of thing to.
Did you know that pigs slaughtered under stress ruin the taste of the
meat? It's true, adrenal-like activators released into their bloodstream
make them taste horrible. And most certainly mechanical damage such as
bruising or injury can easily become the difference between a porterhouse
steak and stewing meat. Here's something to get through that thickened
It is to a distributor's *benefit* that animals are slaughtered as
painlessly and stress-lessly as possible. Bruising during falls, damage
via injury, or chemical change via stress-related hormones *decrease* the
quality of any meat they may acquire from the carcass. Decreased quality
translates to decreased profit margin.
But you have fun showing everyone your videos. Sadly, most people will
believe this sort of thing happens everywhere. I do have one question for
you though... have *you* ever visited a commercial slaughterhouse? I mean
you *personally*, not something you heard from a "friend" or watched on a
documentary. Until you have, I can honestly say you know *less* than
nothing about the industry.
Grey
--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollary that nothing is ridiculous.
- http://www.greywyvern.com/ringmaker - Orca Ringmaker: Host a web ring
from your website!

So, at the humane ones, they don't kill the animals? Good to know!

At the less humane ones, what criteria is used to judge the animal
worthy of death? Are these murderous cows? Criminally insane? Or
perhaps they volunteer?

Given that you believe animals should be murdered so that you don't
have to eat soy products (not a judgement, tofu sure is gross), do you
believe that you are above this? What gives you this power of death? Is
it that you can type (very well by the way!)? If someone slaughtered
you in a very humane way and sold your anus to McDonalds would this be
within your scheme of things?

If you have any footage of these humane slaughterhouses (pigs signing
waivers, etc.) then please post them up! Until then might I suggest
http://www.PETATV.com ?

And have fun eating those dogs!

David J. Grimshaw
"I figured if humonoids ate chicken, then obviously they eat other
humonoids. Otherwise they're just picking on the chickens." Kryten, Red
Dwarf

[GreyWyvern]

And lo, JohnnyMrNinja didst speak in

Post by JohnnyMrNinja
Given that you believe animals should be murdered so that you don't
have to eat soy products (not a judgement, tofu sure is gross), do you
believe that you are above this? What gives you this power of death? Is
it that you can type (very well by the way!)? If someone slaughtered
you in a very humane way and sold your anus to McDonalds would this be
within your scheme of things?

There is a difference between simply arguing over whether or not animals
are slaughtered (terribly *loaded* word BTW) humanely and taking it to the
next philosophical level and asking if what separates humans from animals
is justification for whatever use we put them to.

Frankly, I don't want to get into the latter, because then it's just a big
question of ethics and whose moral high-horse is higher than whose.
Suffice it to say, in a modern slaughterhouse (if you've ever visited one)
care *is* taken to prevent injury and stress before death - unlike what
every sensationalist PETA video would have you believe. Sure, we still
*kill* them; are we "morally" right to do so? That's not the question I'm
trying to answer.

Thanks for the props though.

Grey

[JohnnyMrNinja]

Post by GreyWyvern
And lo, JohnnyMrNinja didst speak in

Post by JohnnyMrNinja
Given that you believe animals should be murdered so that you don't
have to eat soy products (not a judgement, tofu sure is gross), do you
believe that you are above this? What gives you this power of death? Is
it that you can type (very well by the way!)? If someone slaughtered
you in a very humane way and sold your anus to McDonalds would this be
within your scheme of things?

There is a difference between simply arguing over whether or not animals
are slaughtered (terribly *loaded* word BTW) humanely and taking it to the
next philosophical level and asking if what separates humans from animals
is justification for whatever use we put them to.
Frankly, I don't want to get into the latter, because then it's just a big
question of ethics and whose moral high-horse is higher than whose.
Suffice it to say, in a modern slaughterhouse (if you've ever visited one)
care *is* taken to prevent injury and stress before death - unlike what
every sensationalist PETA video would have you believe. Sure, we still
*kill* them; are we "morally" right to do so? That's not the question I'm
trying to answer.
Thanks for the props though.
Grey
--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollary that nothing is ridiculous.
- http://www.greywyvern.com/ringmaker - Orca Ringmaker: Host a web ring
from your website!

Well played, GreyWyvern, well played.

I think it's understandable that

Post by GreyWyvern
You know who should be euthanized? PETA, that's who.

and
have an air of "What? You gonna *bring* it, boy?" But you've steered it
back and that is commendable. Now, for an actual discussion:

I think there's a good chance of privately-owned slaughterhouses being
very humane, for the reasons you mention, and as the fewer animals and
people involved is more humanizing.

But I doubt there is any large-scale meat-producing facility that isn't
cruel on a regular basis. The people who don't care about Porterhouse
and are aiming for "100% beef", at reasonable prices. Did you know that
McDonalds is the #1 buyer of cow eyes in the country? Still beef. The
average customer on the average day doesn't care about quality, just
convinience.

All this in addition to the fact that America is being taken over by
consolidation, huge companies push little producers out of business,
and killing gets a lot less humane.

I certainly do not deny that large companies may exist that actually
care about the animal's stress (if only for quality), I just sincerly
doubt this is the norm.

And, so that you realize that I am acting mature now, I'd like to point

Post by GreyWyvern
Frankly, I don't want to get into the latter, because then it's just a big
question of ethics and whose moral high-horse is higher than whose.

In the current conversation, maybe not the best choice of words, and
that's all I'll say.

David J. Grimshaw
"If a tree falls in the forest, look out!"

[GreyWyvern]

And lo, JohnnyMrNinja didst speak in

Post by JohnnyMrNinja
But I doubt there is any large-scale meat-producing facility that isn't
cruel on a regular basis. The people who don't care about Porterhouse
and are aiming for "100% beef", at reasonable prices. Did you know that
McDonalds is the #1 buyer of cow eyes in the country? Still beef. The
average customer on the average day doesn't care about quality, just
convinience.

You should visit an actual commercial slaughterhouse sometime. Most of
them actually give tours if you ask, mainly because they are eager to
dispel the PETA paradigm. It might actually be an... eye-opener *wink*
*wink*.

BTW, just because McDonalds buys cow eyes (and I'm just going on your
say-so that they *do*), doesn't mean the cows were slaughtered in an
inhumane fashion. Personally, meat is meat to me, as long as it came from
a clean and humanely processed source. What's your "beef" with cow eyes
anyway? Haven't you ever watched Fear Factor? :D

Post by JohnnyMrNinja
All this in addition to the fact that America is being taken over by
consolidation, huge companies push little producers out of business,
and killing gets a lot less humane.

I fail to see how the former automatically causes the latter just because
you say it does.

Post by JohnnyMrNinja
I certainly do not deny that large companies may exist that actually
care about the animal's stress (if only for quality), I just sincerly
doubt this is the norm.

Once again, if in doubt, visit your local slaughterhouse and be
enlightened.

Post by JohnnyMrNinja
And, so that you realize that I am acting mature now, I'd like to point

Post by GreyWyvern
Frankly, I don't want to get into the latter, because then it's just a big
question of ethics and whose moral high-horse is higher than whose.

In the current conversation, maybe not the best choice of words, and
that's all I'll say.

What else can I say? Even *I* didn't catch that as I typed. LOL :)

Grey

[JohnnyMrNinja]

Post by GreyWyvern
BTW, just because McDonalds buys cow eyes (and I'm just going on your
say-so that they *do*), doesn't mean the cows were slaughtered in an
inhumane fashion. Personally, meat is meat to me, as long as it came from
a clean and humanely processed source. What's your "beef" with cow eyes
anyway? Haven't you ever watched Fear Factor? :D

My sister worked at In & Out Burger, and she was filled with all sorts
of disturbing McDonalds facts (they're very big on qulity there, to the
point where nothing tastes good). This was direct reference to the idea
that a stress-free death improves quality, I'm just assuming that
suppliers of Grade D beef don't care too much about the quality.

But I don't disagree with the eye thing, it's meat that would otherwise
not be used (or at least not for people).

Post by GreyWyvern

Post by JohnnyMrNinja
All this in addition to the fact that America is being taken over by
consolidation, huge companies push little producers out of business,
and killing gets a lot less humane.

I fail to see how the former automatically causes the latter just because
you say it does.

www.petatv.com has culprits like Tyson and KFC. Again, not known for
quality. And again an assumption, that the further away a CEO gets from
the actual killing the less he's going to care about how humane it is.

Post by GreyWyvern

Post by JohnnyMrNinja
I certainly do not deny that large companies may exist that actually
care about the animal's stress (if only for quality), I just sincerly
doubt this is the norm.

Once again, if in doubt, visit your local slaughterhouse and be
enlightened.

But certainly a local slaughterhouse isn't where the majority of beef
is produced? Like I've said, a local slaughterhouse is likely to be far
more humane than one in Texas back-country, or one in an illegally
deforested area of Brasil.

David J. Grimshaw
"Making the world safe for hypocrisy"

[GreyWyvern]

And lo, JohnnyMrNinja didst speak in

Post by JohnnyMrNinja

Post by GreyWyvern
Once again, if in doubt, visit your local slaughterhouse and be
enlightened.

But certainly a local slaughterhouse isn't where the majority of beef
is produced? Like I've said, a local slaughterhouse is likely to be far
more humane than one in Texas back-country

The distribution of meat products in North America is a highly regulated
industry. Don't go making it sound like some terrible black-market
secret. If you slaughter and sell meat, your business and what it
produces is going to be federally inspected, like it or not.

But about being "local"... true, that's my pre-suppositions talking. I
live right near Toronto, in Canada, so all the "local" slaughterhouses are
*big* ones. ;) Mostly it's pigs around here though, as opposed to beef.

Post by JohnnyMrNinja
or one in an illegally
deforested area of Brasil.

Now there's a grey area. Although I'm *quite* sure that any imported beef
must also be federally inspected, the same as domestic. Got any stories
to back that claim up?

Grey

BTW, this thread is making me hungry :(

[~*LiveLoveLaugh*~]

Post by GreyWyvern
And lo, JohnnyMrNinja didst speak in

Post by JohnnyMrNinja

Post by GreyWyvern
Once again, if in doubt, visit your local slaughterhouse and be
enlightened.

But certainly a local slaughterhouse isn't where the majority of beef
is produced? Like I've said, a local slaughterhouse is likely to be far
more humane than one in Texas back-country

The distribution of meat products in North America is a highly regulated
industry. Don't go making it sound like some terrible black-market
secret. If you slaughter and sell meat, your business and what it
produces is going to be federally inspected, like it or not.
But about being "local"... true, that's my pre-suppositions talking. I
live right near Toronto, in Canada, so all the "local" slaughterhouses are
*big* ones. ;) Mostly it's pigs around here though, as opposed to beef.

Post by JohnnyMrNinja
or one in an illegally
deforested area of Brasil.

Now there's a grey area. Although I'm *quite* sure that any imported beef
must also be federally inspected, the same as domestic. Got any stories
to back that claim up?
Grey
BTW, this thread is making me hungry :(

It is rather comical at this point. Agree to disagree or type all night.
What's so funny? Burgers are done... gotta go eat.
(And I live on a street that has the color Grey in it.) If you weren't such
a wanker, I'd actually like you for the co-inky-dink of things.

[GreyWyvern]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:18:55 -0400, ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
It is rather comical at this point. Agree to disagree or type all night.
What's so funny? Burgers are done... gotta go eat.
(And I live on a street that has the color Grey in it.) If you weren't such
a wanker, I'd actually like you for the co-inky-dink of things.

Not like me? For not being all up-in-arms about the supposed inhumane
treatment of animals in slaughterhouses? Don't be so droll.

Enjoy that burger.

Grey

[~*LiveLoveLaugh*~]

Post by GreyWyvern
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:18:55 -0400, ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
It is rather comical at this point. Agree to disagree or type all night.
What's so funny? Burgers are done... gotta go eat.
(And I live on a street that has the color Grey in it.) If you weren't such
a wanker, I'd actually like you for the co-inky-dink of things.

Not like me? For not being all up-in-arms about the supposed inhumane
treatment of animals in slaughterhouses? Don't be so droll.
Enjoy that burger.
Grey

I just did!! <sigh> I never get a whole one w/two doggies that happen to
life beef too. (Or maybe it's just the way hubby cooks them?)

Time to do dishes.....................
--
·.·Žš š)) -:Š:-
ž.·Ž .·Žšš))
Laurie
((žž.·Ž ..·Ž
-:Š:- ((žž ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~* Aloha!!!!!

"There is no remedy for love but to love more"...
~~Henry David Thoreau

[~*LiveLoveLaugh*~]

Post by JohnnyMrNinja

Post by GreyWyvern
And lo, ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~ didst speak in

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
It is NOT done humanely.
[snip incendiary propaganda]

Ho ho ho. You can't just toss around a few websites and videos and by
that accuse the entire industry. Certainly there are "rogue"
slaughterhouses out there which do the same to cows, pigs, etc. All of
this is under regulation and they *will* be charged, no matter *what*
animal they do this sort of thing to.
Did you know that pigs slaughtered under stress ruin the taste of the
meat? It's true, adrenal-like activators released into their bloodstream
make them taste horrible. And most certainly mechanical damage such as
bruising or injury can easily become the difference between a porterhouse
steak and stewing meat. Here's something to get through that thickened
It is to a distributor's *benefit* that animals are slaughtered as
painlessly and stress-lessly as possible. Bruising during falls, damage
via injury, or chemical change via stress-related hormones *decrease* the
quality of any meat they may acquire from the carcass. Decreased quality
translates to decreased profit margin.
But you have fun showing everyone your videos. Sadly, most people will
believe this sort of thing happens everywhere. I do have one question for
you though... have *you* ever visited a commercial slaughterhouse? I mean
you *personally*, not something you heard from a "friend" or watched on a
documentary. Until you have, I can honestly say you know *less* than
nothing about the industry.
Grey in head and heart
--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollary that nothing is ridiculous.
- http://www.greywyvern.com/ringmaker - Orca Ringmaker: Host a web ring
from your website!

So, at the humane ones, they don't kill the animals? Good to know!
At the less humane ones, what criteria is used to judge the animal
worthy of death? Are these murderous cows? Criminally insane? Or
perhaps they volunteer?
Given that you believe animals should be murdered so that you don't
have to eat soy products (not a judgement, tofu sure is gross), do you
believe that you are above this? What gives you this power of death? Is
it that you can type (very well by the way!)? If someone slaughtered
you in a very humane way and sold your anus to McDonalds would this be
within your scheme of things?
If you have any footage of these humane slaughterhouses (pigs signing
waivers, etc.) then please post them up! Until then might I suggest
http://www.PETATV.com ?
And have fun eating those dogs!

Replying to internet ninnies is such a waste of time. Am I a PETA person?
Well, yes and no. I detest inhumane of any creature, but I eat beef, pork,
chicken, fish, etc. Would I *try* horse in another country? No f*cking
way. And I don't "try" veal either. (No lamb!)

As far as the reality of what happens to cows and pigs, I know humane from
inhumane. I went to a slaughterhouse on a field trip for science in the 4th
grade. (The teacher must've been really messed up to have done this).
However, when I lived in Washington state, I worked at a beef slaughterhouse
(in the cafeteria, taking money for lunch). Did I like it? Hell no, but I
bought a corvette when I was 18 and had to make ends meet as I was living on
my own by then. So Grey-Cluelessfuck, put that in your not-so-intelligent
pipe and smoke it.

And no, I wouldn't bash in a monkey's brain because it's an expensive
delicatessen in some countries. For God's sake, that is really f*cked up.

Watch a live mouse be eaten by a snake? No way in hell. Eat snake? Ewww!!
No!!
--
·.·Žš š)) -:Š:-
ž.·Ž .·Žšš))
Laurie
((žž.·Ž ..·Ž
-:Š:- ((žž ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~* Aloha!!!!!

"There is no remedy for love but to love more"...
~~Henry David Thoreau

Post by JohnnyMrNinja
David J. Grimshaw
"I figured if humonoids ate chicken, then obviously they eat other
humonoids. Otherwise they're just picking on the chickens." Kryten, Red
Dwarf

[GreyWyvern]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:10:42 -0400, ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
Replying to internet ninnies is such a waste of time. Am I a PETA person?
Well, yes and no. I detest inhumane of any creature, but I eat beef, pork,
chicken, fish, etc. Would I *try* horse in another country? No f*cking
way. And I don't "try" veal either. (No lamb!)
As far as the reality of what happens to cows and pigs, I know humane from
inhumane. I went to a slaughterhouse on a field trip for science in the 4th
grade. (The teacher must've been really messed up to have done this).
However, when I lived in Washington state, I worked at a beef
slaughterhouse
(in the cafeteria, taking money for lunch). Did I like it? Hell no, but I
bought a corvette when I was 18 and had to make ends meet as I was living on
my own by then. So Grey-Cluelessfuck, put that in your
not-so-intelligent
pipe and smoke it.
And no, I wouldn't bash in a monkey's brain because it's an expensive
delicatessen in some countries. For God's sake, that is really f*cked up.
Watch a live mouse be eaten by a snake? No way in hell. Eat snake?
Ewww!!
No!!

I really don't know what you're smoking, but... lots of luck.

Grey

[~*LiveLoveLaugh*~]

Post by GreyWyvern
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:10:42 -0400, ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
Replying to internet ninnies is such a waste of time. Am I a PETA person?
Well, yes and no. I detest inhumane of any creature, but I eat beef, pork,
chicken, fish, etc. Would I *try* horse in another country? No f*cking
way. And I don't "try" veal either. (No lamb!)
As far as the reality of what happens to cows and pigs, I know humane from
inhumane. I went to a slaughterhouse on a field trip for science in the 4th
grade. (The teacher must've been really messed up to have done this).
However, when I lived in Washington state, I worked at a beef slaughterhouse
(in the cafeteria, taking money for lunch). Did I like it? Hell no, but I
bought a corvette when I was 18 and had to make ends meet as I was living on
my own by then. So Grey-Cluelessfuck, put that in your
not-so-intelligent
pipe and smoke it.
And no, I wouldn't bash in a monkey's brain because it's an expensive
delicatessen in some countries. For God's sake, that is really f*cked up.
Watch a live mouse be eaten by a snake? No way in hell. Eat snake?
Ewww!!
No!!

I really don't know what you're smoking, but... lots of luck.
Grey

LOL... I just quit four verrrRRRyyyy loooOOOooong days ago:

Quit meter says:

I have been a quitter for 4 Days, 20 hours, 22 minutes and 27 seconds (4
days). I have saved $18.41 by not smoking 67 cigarettes. I have saved 5
hours and 35 minutes of my life. My Quit Date: 6/18/2005 11:15 PM.

Hence the grumpiness that can come and go in .0000002 seconds.

[athos76]

Ya know... I'll eat anything that makes noise while its alive...
I've been to a slaughterhouse...it was interesting. I didn't hear a
single cow complain of the living conditions.
So we eat meat in order to not eat soy products... well, I eat both.
Soy and tofu aren't my top choice, but my roommate seems to keep
cooking them and I won't turn down a home cooked meal even if it does
have that crap in it.
Cows have been raised for food ever since man realized cow tastes
good. Back in the day, there probably were no vegetarians (not 100%
sure...) Meat is good. At least my entire family thinks so...
I tried being a vegetarian for about a year... I snuck in some fish
and turkey once in a while, then a 24oz Porterhouse did me in at New
Years dinner...It literally had my name branded on it as a joke...so
yummy.
Like I've said before, I have eaten many animals...and there are
still more I want to try...
Heres a list for you (just to tick ya off): Dog, snake, rabbit, cow,
pig, mealworms, crickets, ants, earthworms, goldfish, kangaroo,
squirrel, alligator, deer, bear, bison, buffalo, grubs, iguana, rat
(long story), emu, possum, armadilla, ostrich, chicken, turkey, various
fish, octopus, squid, crab, lobster, shrimp, conch, clam, oyster,
mussels, shark, tarantula, boar, turtle, and probably a few others.
Now for those that don't eat meat...the classic question... if you
were stranded on an island/mountain/cave/another planet, with no veggie
food source and the only way to survive would be eat another
human...would you?
If not, I've got dips on yer rump....heard its the best spot...and it
tastes like chicken according to cannibals.


(feel free to pick at this message as you see fit, in makes no
nevermind to me)


Plenty of animals were harmed in the making of this message.

[Linda Terrell]

I eat vegetarians regularly...

LT

[Ulrik Smed]

Post by Linda Terrell
I eat vegetarians regularly...

Reminds me of this hit, LOL!
http://www.80smusiclyrics.com/artists/totocoelo.htm

[L Sternn]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:41:13 GMT, Linda Terrell

Post by Linda Terrell
I eat vegetarians regularly...

I tried them, but I didn't like them. Meat-eaters taste much better

Post by Linda Terrell
LT

[JohnnyMrNinja]

Post by athos76
Ya know... I'll eat anything that makes noise while its alive...

I'd reccomend against those that make noise afterwards.

Post by athos76
Now for those that don't eat meat...the classic question... if you
were stranded on an island/mountain/cave/another planet, with no veggie
food source and the only way to survive would be eat another
human...would you?
If not, I've got dips on yer rump....heard its the best spot...and it
tastes like chicken according to cannibals.

To be honest, it would depend on the person. While there are some
people I would refuse to kill, there are some people I couldn't stomach
eating. And there are some people that I would eat even if there was
another food source - for example, if I was stuck on another planet
with the band Nickelback.

[L Sternn]

Post by athos76
Ya know... I'll eat anything that makes noise while its alive...
I've been to a slaughterhouse...it was interesting. I didn't hear a
single cow complain of the living conditions.
So we eat meat in order to not eat soy products... well, I eat both.
Soy and tofu aren't my top choice, but my roommate seems to keep
cooking them and I won't turn down a home cooked meal even if it does
have that crap in it.
Cows have been raised for food ever since man realized cow tastes
good. Back in the day, there probably were no vegetarians (not 100%
sure...) Meat is good. At least my entire family thinks so...
I tried being a vegetarian for about a year... I snuck in some fish
and turkey once in a while, then a 24oz Porterhouse did me in at New
Years dinner...It literally had my name branded on it as a joke...so
yummy.
Like I've said before, I have eaten many animals...and there are
still more I want to try...
Heres a list for you (just to tick ya off): Dog, snake, rabbit, cow,
pig, mealworms, crickets, ants, earthworms, goldfish, kangaroo,
squirrel, alligator, deer, bear, bison, buffalo, grubs, iguana, rat
(long story), emu, possum, armadilla, ostrich, chicken, turkey, various
fish, octopus, squid, crab, lobster, shrimp, conch, clam, oyster,
mussels, shark, tarantula, boar, turtle, and probably a few others.

eel, frog, mudbugs.

Eel is excellent, frog was sort of like chicken, but there wasn't much
meat there, mudbugs are excellent too.

Post by athos76
Now for those that don't eat meat...the classic question... if you
were stranded on an island/mountain/cave/another planet, with no veggie
food source and the only way to survive would be eat another
human...would you?
If not, I've got dips on yer rump....heard its the best spot...and it
tastes like chicken according to cannibals.
(feel free to pick at this message as you see fit, in makes no
nevermind to me)
Plenty of animals were harmed in the making of this message.

[~*LiveLoveLaugh*~]

Post by L Sternn

Post by athos76
Ya know... I'll eat anything that makes noise while its alive...
I've been to a slaughterhouse...it was interesting. I didn't hear a
single cow complain of the living conditions.
So we eat meat in order to not eat soy products... well, I eat both.
Soy and tofu aren't my top choice, but my roommate seems to keep
cooking them and I won't turn down a home cooked meal even if it does
have that crap in it.
Cows have been raised for food ever since man realized cow tastes
good. Back in the day, there probably were no vegetarians (not 100%
sure...) Meat is good. At least my entire family thinks so...
I tried being a vegetarian for about a year... I snuck in some fish
and turkey once in a while, then a 24oz Porterhouse did me in at New
Years dinner...It literally had my name branded on it as a joke...so
yummy.
Like I've said before, I have eaten many animals...and there are
still more I want to try...
Heres a list for you (just to tick ya off): Dog, snake, rabbit, cow,
pig, mealworms, crickets, ants, earthworms, goldfish, kangaroo,
squirrel, alligator, deer, bear, bison, buffalo, grubs, iguana, rat
(long story), emu, possum, armadilla, ostrich, chicken, turkey, various
fish, octopus, squid, crab, lobster, shrimp, conch, clam, oyster,
mussels, shark, tarantula, boar, turtle, and probably a few others.

eel, frog, mudbugs.
Eel is excellent, frog was sort of like chicken, but there wasn't much
meat there, mudbugs are excellent too.

Smoked eel at the sushi bar is divine!! And I love all sorts of sushi..
just not sea urchin. But eating bugs would have to be a dare/challenge with
lots of money involved!!!
--
·.·Žš š)) -:Š:-
ž.·Ž .·Žšš))
Laurie
((žž.·Ž ..·Ž
-:Š:- ((žž ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~* Aloha!!!!!

"There is no remedy for love but to love more"...
~~Henry David Thoreau

Post by L Sternn

Post by athos76
Now for those that don't eat meat...the classic question... if you
were stranded on an island/mountain/cave/another planet, with no veggie
food source and the only way to survive would be eat another
human...would you?
If not, I've got dips on yer rump....heard its the best spot...and it
tastes like chicken according to cannibals.
(feel free to pick at this message as you see fit, in makes no
nevermind to me)
Plenty of animals were harmed in the making of this message.

[L Sternn]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:52:44 GMT, "~*LiveLoveLaugh*~"

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~

Post by L Sternn

Post by athos76
Ya know... I'll eat anything that makes noise while its alive...
I've been to a slaughterhouse...it was interesting. I didn't hear a
single cow complain of the living conditions.
So we eat meat in order to not eat soy products... well, I eat both.
Soy and tofu aren't my top choice, but my roommate seems to keep
cooking them and I won't turn down a home cooked meal even if it does
have that crap in it.
Cows have been raised for food ever since man realized cow tastes
good. Back in the day, there probably were no vegetarians (not 100%
sure...) Meat is good. At least my entire family thinks so...
I tried being a vegetarian for about a year... I snuck in some fish
and turkey once in a while, then a 24oz Porterhouse did me in at New
Years dinner...It literally had my name branded on it as a joke...so
yummy.
Like I've said before, I have eaten many animals...and there are
still more I want to try...
Heres a list for you (just to tick ya off): Dog, snake, rabbit, cow,
pig, mealworms, crickets, ants, earthworms, goldfish, kangaroo,
squirrel, alligator, deer, bear, bison, buffalo, grubs, iguana, rat
(long story), emu, possum, armadilla, ostrich, chicken, turkey, various
fish, octopus, squid, crab, lobster, shrimp, conch, clam, oyster,
mussels, shark, tarantula, boar, turtle, and probably a few others.

eel, frog, mudbugs.
Eel is excellent, frog was sort of like chicken, but there wasn't much
meat there, mudbugs are excellent too.

Smoked eel at the sushi bar is divine!! And I love all sorts of sushi..
just not sea urchin. But eating bugs would have to be a dare/challenge with
lots of money involved!!!

mudbugs are just little freshwater lobsters

Loading Image...

And they've got exoskeletons just like bugs.

Is there really any biological difference between crustaceans and
bugs?

[~*LiveLoveLaugh*~]

Post by L Sternn
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:52:44 GMT, "~*LiveLoveLaugh*~"

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~

Post by L Sternn

Post by athos76
Ya know... I'll eat anything that makes noise while its alive...
I've been to a slaughterhouse...it was interesting. I didn't hear a
single cow complain of the living conditions.
So we eat meat in order to not eat soy products... well, I eat both.
Soy and tofu aren't my top choice, but my roommate seems to keep
cooking them and I won't turn down a home cooked meal even if it does
have that crap in it.
Cows have been raised for food ever since man realized cow tastes
good. Back in the day, there probably were no vegetarians (not 100%
sure...) Meat is good. At least my entire family thinks so...
I tried being a vegetarian for about a year... I snuck in some fish
and turkey once in a while, then a 24oz Porterhouse did me in at New
Years dinner...It literally had my name branded on it as a joke...so
yummy.
Like I've said before, I have eaten many animals...and there are
still more I want to try...
Heres a list for you (just to tick ya off): Dog, snake, rabbit, cow,
pig, mealworms, crickets, ants, earthworms, goldfish, kangaroo,
squirrel, alligator, deer, bear, bison, buffalo, grubs, iguana, rat
(long story), emu, possum, armadilla, ostrich, chicken, turkey, various
fish, octopus, squid, crab, lobster, shrimp, conch, clam, oyster,
mussels, shark, tarantula, boar, turtle, and probably a few others.

eel, frog, mudbugs.
Eel is excellent, frog was sort of like chicken, but there wasn't much
meat there, mudbugs are excellent too.

Smoked eel at the sushi bar is divine!! And I love all sorts of sushi..
just not sea urchin. But eating bugs would have to be a dare/challenge with
lots of money involved!!!

mudbugs are just little freshwater lobsters
http://www.zoeicaimages.com/assets/images/Mudbugs.jpg
And they've got exoskeletons just like bugs.
Is there really any biological difference between crustaceans and
bugs?

I'd like to say yes... there is a huge difference.

Where ya from, L. Sternn? Those are called crawdads down here... or
crawfish, or crayfish. `Used to love to eat them by the buckets after they
were boiled in beer at a nice place on the water called Craw Daddy's.
--
·.·Žš š)) -:Š:-
ž.·Ž .·Žšš))
Laurie
((žž.·Ž ..·Ž
-:Š:- ((žž ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~* Aloha!!!!!

"There is no remedy for love but to love more"...
~~Henry David Thoreau

[athos76]

I also have 2 snapping turtles, along with my 5 snakes... I feed them
all live rats and mice... and as cruel as it may be, I knock the rat
over the head first so it is dazed when my snakes eat.
My turtles on the other hand could be in the same category as some
murderers in our prisons.. One has on multiple occasions, grabbed the
mouse by the tail and held its head less than an inch under the water
and waited for it to drown, then proceeded to eat it.
The other one repeatedly dismembers her mice with her claws, then
thouroughly eats all the pieces.... I'll post video somehow...

[Buslady]

Post by athos76
Ya know... I'll eat anything that makes noise while its alive...
*snipped*
Heres a list for you (just to tick ya off): Dog, snake, rabbit, cow,
pig, mealworms, crickets, ants, earthworms, goldfish, kangaroo,
squirrel, alligator, deer, bear, bison, buffalo, grubs, iguana, rat
(long story), emu, possum, armadilla, ostrich, chicken, turkey, various
fish, octopus, squid, crab, lobster, shrimp, conch, clam, oyster,
mussels, shark, tarantula, boar, turtle, and probably a few others.
Now for those that don't eat meat...the classic question... if you
were stranded on an island/mountain/cave/another planet, with no veggie
food source and the only way to survive would be eat another
human...would you?
If not, I've got dips on yer rump....heard its the best spot...and it
tastes like chicken according to cannibals.

Hey you lied...lots of those animals dont make noise when it's alive!
squid, turtles, lobsters....


*runs & hides*

[Grainne Gillespie]

Post by Buslady
Hey you lied...lots of those animals dont make noise when it's alive!
squid, turtles, lobsters....
*runs & hides*

I beg to differ, my turtle hisses quite a lot

[Cindy]

Post by Grainne Gillespie

Post by Buslady
Hey you lied...lots of those animals dont make noise when it's alive!
squid, turtles, lobsters....
*runs & hides*

I beg to differ, my turtle hisses quite a lot

Lobsters scream when you put them in the boiling water.

[Grainne Gillespie]

Post by Cindy
Lobsters scream when you put them in the boiling water.

I heard that's just air escaping from their shells

[Richard Casady]

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:35:31 +0100, "Grainne Gillespie"

Post by Grainne Gillespie

Post by Buslady
Hey you lied...lots of those animals dont make noise when it's alive!
squid, turtles, lobsters....
*runs & hides*

I beg to differ, my turtle hisses quite a lot

My snapper Boltcutter bangs his head on the side of the tank when he
sees me coming.

Casady

[GreyWyvern]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:39:38 -0400, ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
I have been a quitter for 4 Days, 20 hours, 22 minutes and 27 seconds (4
days). I have saved $18.41 by not smoking 67 cigarettes. I have saved 5
hours and 35 minutes of my life. My Quit Date: 6/18/2005 11:15 PM.

Hey! Honestly, that's great! Congratulations :) Keep at it!

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
Hence the grumpiness that can come and go in .0000002 seconds.

I have three older siblings and one younger who all smoked, so I hate it
with a passion. I watched two of them quit, so I have a good idea about
how hard it is :/

Good luck there,
Grey

[~*LiveLoveLaugh*~]

Post by GreyWyvern
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:39:38 -0400, ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
I have been a quitter for 4 Days, 20 hours, 22 minutes and 27 seconds (4
days). I have saved $18.41 by not smoking 67 cigarettes. I have saved 5
hours and 35 minutes of my life. My Quit Date: 6/18/2005 11:15 PM.

Hey! Honestly, that's great! Congratulations :) Keep at it!

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
Hence the grumpiness that can come and go in .0000002 seconds.

I have three older siblings and one younger who all smoked, so I hate it
with a passion. I watched two of them quit, so I have a good idea about
how hard it is :/
Good luck there,
Grey

Thanks, Grey. Today is sit by the pool day. That's always a good place for
an ashtray and lotsa smokes while gabbing w/my girlfriend. But, all I can
think about is wanting to have a good day, so I'll give my cravings a piece
of my mind if need be.

Take care... happy Friday!

I have been a quitter for 5 Days, 11 hours, 58 minutes and 2 seconds (5
days). I have saved $20.88 by not smoking 76 cigarettes. I have saved 6
hours and 20 minutes of my life. My Quit Date: 6/18/2005 11:15 PM!!!!
--
·.·Žš š)) -:Š:-
ž.·Ž .·Žšš))
Laurie
((žž.·Ž ..·Ž
-:Š:- ((žž ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~* Aloha!!!!!

"There is no remedy for love but to love more"...
~~Henry David Thoreau

[~*LiveLoveLaugh*~]

Post by GreyWyvern
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:39:38 -0400, ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
I have been a quitter for 4 Days, 20 hours, 22 minutes and 27 seconds (4
days). I have saved $18.41 by not smoking 67 cigarettes. I have saved 5
hours and 35 minutes of my life. My Quit Date: 6/18/2005 11:15 PM.

Hey! Honestly, that's great! Congratulations :) Keep at it!

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
Hence the grumpiness that can come and go in .0000002 seconds.

I have three older siblings and one younger who all smoked, so I hate it
with a passion. I watched two of them quit, so I have a good idea about
how hard it is :/
Good luck there,
Grey

Checking in witchoo. How are you? I'm up 55 bux:

I have been a quitter for 1 Week, 3 Days, 16 hours, 23 minutes and 55
seconds (10 days). I have saved $55.81 by not smoking 202 cigarettes. I have
saved 16 hours and 50 minutes of my life. My Quit Date: 6/18/2005 11:15 PM!!

202 ciggies!! That makes me sick now!! (But I crave it, like a snake
craves a little white, fuzzy, cutie-patootie mousie).
--
·.·Žš š)) -:Š:-
ž.·Ž .·Žšš))
Laurie
((žž.·Ž ..·Ž
-:Š:- ((žž ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~* Aloha!!!!!

"There is no remedy for love but to love more"...
~~Henry David Thoreau

[GreyWyvern]

And lo, ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~ didst speak in
:rolleyes:

You should try to stop thinking about it, or at least, stop thinking about
the you-know-whats. How about taking the 55 bucks and buying something
that you'll end up seeing everyday. Like a lamp, or a painting. Then
everytime you see that, you'll think: "y'know... if I hadn't quit, I
wouldn't have this." etc. Stuff like that, reinforcing the "good", but
taking your mind off the bad (you know... the you-know-whats). :P

I hear it gets tougher and tougher to "quit again" each time you
surrender, so stay with it! :D

Grey

[Cindy]

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
I have been a quitter for 4 Days, 20 hours, 22 minutes and 27 seconds
(4 days). I have saved $18.41 by not smoking 67 cigarettes. I have
saved 5 hours and 35 minutes of my life. My Quit Date: 6/18/2005
11:15 PM.

Oh, congratulations, and good luck! Take a lot of deeeeeep breaths and make
your stomach relax when the stress hits.

Cindy

[there's a lot of innocent people being crucified]

Post by Cindy

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
I have been a quitter for 4 Days, 20 hours, 22 minutes and 27 seconds
(4 days). I have saved $18.41 by not smoking 67 cigarettes. I have
saved 5 hours and 35 minutes of my life. My Quit Date: 6/18/2005
11:15 PM.

Oh, congratulations, and good luck! Take a lot of deeeeeep breaths and make
your stomach relax when the stress hits.

Ha! My brother is a tobacco addict and tried to quit several times
before he decided it was his destiny to be a chain-smoking fool.
The first time he quit we were on vacation and by afternoon he was
starting to go mad. A few hours later he had some sort of temper
tantrum, smashed his walkman, and rushed outside to smoke half a
cigarette. The next few days didn't go any better, the occassional
partial cigarettes to fight withdrawal quickly led to resuming his
regular 3 carton per day habit.

-----------------------------
"Your world is an ashtray..."
-- Marilyn Manson
-----------------------------

[Grainne Gillespie]

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
Ha! My brother is a tobacco addict and tried to quit several times
before he decided it was his destiny to be a chain-smoking fool.
The first time he quit we were on vacation and by afternoon he was
starting to go mad. A few hours later he had some sort of temper
tantrum, smashed his walkman, and rushed outside to smoke half a
cigarette. The next few days didn't go any better, the occassional
partial cigarettes to fight withdrawal quickly led to resuming his
regular 3 carton per day habit.
-----------------------------
"Your world is an ashtray..."
-- Marilyn Manson
-----------------------------

Has he tried using gum or patches? Some airlines hand out patches to smokers
to substitute for the fags/ciggies/whatever slang used to refer to
cigarettes in your neck of the woods that they're not allowed to smoke on
the plane

[L Sternn]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:02:39 +0100, "Grainne Gillespie"

Post by Grainne Gillespie

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
Ha! My brother is a tobacco addict and tried to quit several times
before he decided it was his destiny to be a chain-smoking fool.
The first time he quit we were on vacation and by afternoon he was
starting to go mad. A few hours later he had some sort of temper
tantrum, smashed his walkman, and rushed outside to smoke half a
cigarette. The next few days didn't go any better, the occassional
partial cigarettes to fight withdrawal quickly led to resuming his
regular 3 carton per day habit.
-----------------------------
"Your world is an ashtray..."
-- Marilyn Manson
-----------------------------

Has he tried using gum or patches?

I've tried them both.

The patch didn't do enough and the gum was too hard to regulate the
amount you were getting from it.

Post by Grainne Gillespie
Some airlines hand out patches to smokers
to substitute for the fags/ciggies/whatever slang used to refer to
cigarettes in your neck of the woods that they're not allowed to smoke on
the plane

Really? That would be nice. I carry snuff on airplanes now, but I
don't really like it.

I've found that I can stave off cravings in airplanes fairly well as
long as I don't drink any alcohol. It's like my body knows it's not
going to get a smoke until we land.

The last plane trip I took, I really didn't crave at all until a few
minutes before we were supposed to land and the pilot announced that
instead of landing, we'd be circling the airport for the next 30
minutes or so.

[L Sternn]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:10:42 GMT, "~*LiveLoveLaugh*~"

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
Replying to internet ninnies is such a waste of time.

Yeah, but I'm gonna do it anyway.

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
Am I a PETA person?
Well, yes and no.

No, you either are or you aren't. PETA is so extremist and in many
instances hypocritical that only a raving lunatic would even consider
being associated with them.

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
I detest inhumane of any creature, but I eat beef, pork,
chicken, fish, etc. Would I *try* horse in another country? No f*cking
way. And I don't "try" veal either. (No lamb!)

Veal isn't lamb. You could learn something from South Park. Veal
is "little tortured baby cow".

And if you won't eat lamb, you have no idea what you're missing.

What about ducks? Will you eat them?

http://tinyurl.com/b3mmq
(picture of little baby ducks with their mother)

They're so cute, aren't they?

They're quite tasty too.

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
As far as the reality of what happens to cows and pigs, I know humane from
inhumane. I went to a slaughterhouse on a field trip for science in the 4th
grade. (The teacher must've been really messed up to have done this).
However, when I lived in Washington state, I worked at a beef slaughterhouse
(in the cafeteria, taking money for lunch). Did I like it? Hell no, but I
bought a corvette when I was 18 and had to make ends meet as I was living on
my own by then. So Grey-Cluelessfuck, put that in your not-so-intelligent
pipe and smoke it.
And no, I wouldn't bash in a monkey's brain because it's an expensive
delicatessen in some countries. For God's sake, that is really f*cked up.
Watch a live mouse be eaten by a snake? No way in hell. Eat snake? Ewww!!
No!!

Why not? I hear snake is excellent.

[~*LiveLoveLaugh*~]

Post by L Sternn
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:10:42 GMT, "~*LiveLoveLaugh*~"

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
Replying to internet ninnies is such a waste of time.

Yeah, but I'm gonna do it anyway.

Me 2!! Mmmmmeeeeetoooo11!

Post by L Sternn

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
Am I a PETA person?
Well, yes and no.

No, you either are or you aren't. PETA is so extremist and in many
instances hypocritical that only a raving lunatic would even consider
being associated with them.

Okay, so I'm not. I'm just an animal lover at heart.

Post by L Sternn

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
I detest inhumane of any creature, but I eat beef, pork,
chicken, fish, etc. Would I *try* horse in another country? No f*cking
way. And I don't "try" veal either. (No lamb!)

Veal isn't lamb.

Duh.

Post by L Sternn
You could learn something from South Park. Veal
is "little tortured baby cow".

And do you call your BM's "Mr. Hanky Poo"? ;) (`Love that show)!!

Post by L Sternn
And if you won't eat lamb, you have no idea what you're missing.

Oh yes I do. I've tasted it. Too gamey for me, and I think the idea of
eating it w/mint green jelly is really gross. Hubby and in-laws have it
when we're at the lake house... and I have a good ole' boyger.

Post by L Sternn
What about ducks? Will you eat them?

Tried duck... `didn't like it.

Post by L Sternn
http://tinyurl.com/b3mmq
(picture of little baby ducks with their mother)
They're so cute, aren't they?
They're quite tasty too.

Depends on your palette. Mine says 'yuck'. But then again, I like raw
quail eggs at the sushi bar, so it's tit for tat I suppose.

Post by L Sternn

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
As far as the reality of what happens to cows and pigs, I know humane from
inhumane. I went to a slaughterhouse on a field trip for science in the 4th
grade. (The teacher must've been really messed up to have done this).
However, when I lived in Washington state, I worked at a beef

slaughterhouse

Post by L Sternn

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
(in the cafeteria, taking money for lunch). Did I like it? Hell no, but I
bought a corvette when I was 18 and had to make ends meet as I was living on
my own by then. So Grey-Cluelessfuck, put that in your

not-so-intelligent

Post by L Sternn

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
pipe and smoke it.
And no, I wouldn't bash in a monkey's brain because it's an expensive
delicatessen in some countries. For God's sake, that is really f*cked up.
Watch a live mouse be eaten by a snake? No way in hell. Eat snake?

Ewww!!

Post by L Sternn

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
No!!

Why not? I hear snake is excellent.

I hear it tastes like chicken. But I'll wait until I'm stranded in the
desert before I have to try rattle snake as a main dish. Now gator tail is
quite good. Ever tried that? It's fun to go to a spot on the creek in Jax,
FL (`can't recall the dang name of it... it's on Julington Creek in
Mandarin)... anyway, it's quite fun to eat the gator tail, and also feed
the gators the same meat. Then, you pop right back into the boat and ski in
that same water!!

Some would say that's awfully scary. But, we never thought twice about it!

--

LLL

[El Chapo]

Post by L Sternn
No, you either are or you aren't. PETA is so extremist and in many
instances hypocritical that only a raving lunatic would even consider
being associated with them.

A long time I ago I was a pizzaboy and remember one regular customer
who would order pepperoni or other meat-topped pizza, then pay me
with a customized check with something like "protect the animals" or
whatever and a PETA logo printed on it. Nevermind that the meat and
even the cheese on those pizzas violated PETA's hardcore militant
veginazi position.

Post by L Sternn

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
Watch a live mouse be eaten by a snake? No way in hell. Eat snake? Ewww!!
No!!

Why not? I hear snake is excellent.

I've never tried snake, and though I love my pet snake I don't think I
would be adverse to at least trying a piece of snake meat just so I
could tell people about it. I did eat alligator on a visit to New Orleans,
actually alligator nuggets and it took me a few minutes to work up the
courage to eat one, it really wasn't so bad. Like they always say, it
did taste like chicken, but the texture was much tougher. As for cats,
I don't think I would eat one, but I have no moral objection to cultures
(like Koreans) who eat them. In fact, there was a thread on this group
or maybe another about a hysteria in some American city where the animal
shelter was accused of adopting out cats to Korean-Americans who were
then accused of cooking and serving them in the their restaurants. It
made no difference that the cats would have been gassed to death and
cremated 5 minutes later had they not been adopted, the fact that people
were EATING them (and thus giving some purpose to the poor cats' sad
lives) was just cruel, inhumane, and utterly intolerable. And same for
dogs; in fact I read the most excellent book "Aztec" by Gary Jennings
and apparently back in those days they had small dogs they took with them
on cross-country journeys and along the way the dogs would go off-trail
and catch rabbits and whatever to eat, then when supplied ran low after
a week or so the troupe would begin eating the dogs.

[~*LiveLoveLaugh*~]

Post by El Chapo

Post by L Sternn
No, you either are or you aren't. PETA is so extremist and in many
instances hypocritical that only a raving lunatic would even consider
being associated with them.

A long time I ago I was a pizzaboy and remember one regular customer
who would order pepperoni or other meat-topped pizza, then pay me
with a customized check with something like "protect the animals" or
whatever and a PETA logo printed on it. Nevermind that the meat and
even the cheese on those pizzas violated PETA's hardcore militant
veginazi position.

http://www.totallytom.com/MadCow.html :)~

And... thank you. I now know what I want for deener tonight. (No meat tho'
on my pizza. Cheese and cheese and `maters please).
--
·.·Žš š)) -:Š:-
ž.·Ž .·Žšš))
Laurie
((žž.·Ž ..·Ž
-:Š:- ((žž ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~* Aloha!!!!!

"There is no remedy for love but to love more"...
~~Henry David Thoreau

Post by El Chapo

Post by L Sternn

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
Watch a live mouse be eaten by a snake? No way in hell. Eat snake?

Ewww!!

Post by El Chapo

Post by L Sternn

Post by ~*LiveLoveLaugh*~
No!!

Why not? I hear snake is excellent.

I've never tried snake, and though I love my pet snake I don't think I
would be adverse to at least trying a piece of snake meat just so I
could tell people about it. I did eat alligator on a visit to New Orleans,
actually alligator nuggets and it took me a few minutes to work up the
courage to eat one, it really wasn't so bad. Like they always say, it
did taste like chicken, but the texture was much tougher. As for cats,
I don't think I would eat one, but I have no moral objection to cultures
(like Koreans) who eat them. In fact, there was a thread on this group
or maybe another about a hysteria in some American city where the animal
shelter was accused of adopting out cats to Korean-Americans who were
then accused of cooking and serving them in the their restaurants. It
made no difference that the cats would have been gassed to death and
cremated 5 minutes later had they not been adopted, the fact that people
were EATING them (and thus giving some purpose to the poor cats' sad
lives) was just cruel, inhumane, and utterly intolerable. And same for
dogs; in fact I read the most excellent book "Aztec" by Gary Jennings
and apparently back in those days they had small dogs they took with them
on cross-country journeys and along the way the dogs would go off-trail
and catch rabbits and whatever to eat, then when supplied ran low after
a week or so the troupe would begin eating the dogs.

[there's a lot of innocent people being crucified]

Post by Jason and Holly Harper
Well now I could see if maybe a kitten was just wandering around a swamp and
came across an alligator, but it sure doesn't seem like it should be legal
to feed gators period. As for the live mice that you feed your snake, I'm a
rat owner, and I do understand the food chain, but I do prefer people to
feed pre-killed rodents. Safer for the snake. In fact I believe it's
illegal in some places to feed live rodents. Now for me, it would be a
personal preference I'd rather see a snake eat a dead mouse than a live one.
It would just bother me too much. But that's another discussion I suppose.
;-) FWIW, I don't think slaughtering horses for meat is cruel either. Do I
support it and would I eat it? No. But if it's done humanely then what
would be cruel about it?

Now I've fed my snake dead mice a few times when live ones were out of stock,
but I see no reason to stop feeding him live mice. That is what snakes eat
in the wild, I don't think we have any right to attempt to adjust their
diet to what we find politically correct at the moment. Snakes eat mice in
the wild, they do not humanely euthanize them before eating them, they
strangle them instead. Also, PETA objects to ANY killing of animals, not
only for human food but also animal food, suggesting that carnivorous
pets can be sustained with a diet of tofu, bean sprouts, and soy flakes. I
do not see any reason my snake should be subjected to such nonsense, I
have no problem feeding him live mice as he would eat in the wild. And
where would we stop, would PETA also demand humanely euthanizing crickets
that are sold as lizard food?

[Grainne Gillespie]

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
Now I've fed my snake dead mice a few times when live ones were out of stock,
but I see no reason to stop feeding him live mice.

How about the fact that live mice have sharp teeth and can seriously injure
your snake?

Does anyone have the URL to the pic of that poor chewed up ball python?

[Ulrik Smed]

Post by Grainne Gillespie

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
Now I've fed my snake dead mice a few times when live ones
were out of stock, but I see no reason to stop feeding him
live mice.

How about the fact that live mice have sharp teeth and can
seriously injure your snake?
Does anyone have the URL to the pic of that poor chewed up
ball python?

I found it here, but it's not the original URL I think.
Loading Image...
It's really nasty, but I'm quite sure it was a rat that did it, not a mouse.
There still is a risk with live mice though.

BTW, I think we should be a bit careful using nature as a standard for
what's 'right'. Take wild dogs for example, the way the kill their prey
causes a lot of suffering. That doesn't mean it's OK for us to kill that
way, or let our dogs do so, IMO. A lot of things happening in the wild would
be considered severe animal abuse by most people, if we did it.

[there's a lot of innocent people being crucified]

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
Now I've fed my snake dead mice a few times when live ones were out of

stock,

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
but I see no reason to stop feeding him live mice.

How about the fact that live mice have sharp teeth and can seriously injure
your snake?
Does anyone have the URL to the pic of that poor chewed up ball python?

Except that I monitor the feeding, I watch until the mouse is thoroughly
strangled then I slowly leave the area as he gets distracted by any
motion. I can quickly stop any mouse attack and in the 6 years I've
been feeding him he's never been bitten once.

But none of this changes the fact that live mice but not live kittens
are okay to feed to reptiles, and even dead kittens would not be
permitted. Animal shelters around the country euthanize thousands
of cats and kittens daily and cremate them or toss them in landfills,
but an animal or even a human eating those same cats and kittens is
horribly cruel.

[Grainne Gillespie]

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
Except that I monitor the feeding, I watch until the mouse is thoroughly
strangled then I slowly leave the area as he gets distracted by any
motion. I can quickly stop any mouse attack and in the 6 years I've
been feeding him he's never been bitten once.

Barbara Horwitz once mentioned a guy who always fed live to his snakes. He
always supervised the feedings until one day he had to leave the room. He
never fed live again and Barbara eventually became the owner of his now
one-eyed snake

[Gloria Carr]

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
But none of this changes the fact that live mice but not live kittens
are okay to feed to reptiles, and even dead kittens would not be
permitted. Animal shelters around the country euthanize thousands
of cats and kittens daily and cremate them or toss them in landfills,
but an animal or even a human eating those same cats and kittens is
horribly cruel.

Not cruel per se, but...

I remember one time when I volunteering at my local zoo's birds of prey
program. Usually we got lots of dead mice, day old chicks, and the
occasional hamster or rabbit for the birds. I think at the time most of the
rodents came from a place that bred animals for labs, and we got the
rejects. I remember that the mice sometimes had tumors and were occasionally
hairless. One time they sent us a dead puppy as well. :( It had apparently
been still born. It was upsetting and one of the staff went and yelled at
the kitchen for sending it to us. Not long after they changed their source
of rodents.

Gloria

[warrigal]

I could understand being upset with that, the poor bird will imprint to
the wrong food items if it's being fed whole pups. They need to at
least take it's head off.

[Jason and Holly Harper]

Yes, my personal preference would be to see a dead mouse/rat fed to a snake.
However, live rats have been known to injure and/or kill snakes. It's not
just a matter of my preference to not see a live animal killed, it just
seems safer for the snake to get food that's not going to hurt it.

Just my .02

Holly

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified

Post by Jason and Holly Harper
Well now I could see if maybe a kitten was just wandering around a swamp and
came across an alligator, but it sure doesn't seem like it should be legal
to feed gators period. As for the live mice that you feed your snake, I'm a
rat owner, and I do understand the food chain, but I do prefer people to
feed pre-killed rodents. Safer for the snake. In fact I believe it's
illegal in some places to feed live rodents. Now for me, it would be a
personal preference I'd rather see a snake eat a dead mouse than a live one.
It would just bother me too much. But that's another discussion I suppose.
;-) FWIW, I don't think slaughtering horses for meat is cruel either.

Do I

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified

Post by Jason and Holly Harper
support it and would I eat it? No. But if it's done humanely then what
would be cruel about it?

Now I've fed my snake dead mice a few times when live ones were out of stock,
but I see no reason to stop feeding him live mice. That is what snakes eat
in the wild, I don't think we have any right to attempt to adjust their
diet to what we find politically correct at the moment. Snakes eat mice in
the wild, they do not humanely euthanize them before eating them, they
strangle them instead. Also, PETA objects to ANY killing of animals, not
only for human food but also animal food, suggesting that carnivorous
pets can be sustained with a diet of tofu, bean sprouts, and soy flakes.

I

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
do not see any reason my snake should be subjected to such nonsense, I
have no problem feeding him live mice as he would eat in the wild. And
where would we stop, would PETA also demand humanely euthanizing crickets
that are sold as lizard food?

[L Sternn]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 22:24:51 GMT, "Jason and Holly Harper"

Post by Jason and Holly Harper
Yes, my personal preference would be to see a dead mouse/rat fed to a snake.
However, live rats have been known to injure and/or kill snakes. It's not
just a matter of my preference to not see a live animal killed, it just
seems safer for the snake to get food that's not going to hurt it.
Just my .02
Holly

When I was in school, we used to bring cockroaches in to feed the
tarantula in the biology lab.

Think of the diseases the tarantula could have gotten and all the
suffering those cockroaches went through.

Of course, the tarantula wasn't interested in dead bugs, especially
ones that had been stomped on or smothered in Raid.

[clem]

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
Now I've fed my snake dead mice a few times when live ones were out of stock,
but I see no reason to stop feeding him live mice. That is what snakes

eat.

In the wild yes,

But thats very different, the snake is normaly hidden and the mouse as no
idea it's about to die.

what you are doing is putting a mouse in with a snake thats not always
waiting for prey, the mouse on the other hand knows whats about to happed
and can get the better of the snake, they are not completely stupid (fight
or flight) they can't run away so they fight for their lives.

maybe only one will win from time to time, thats all it would take to kill
your snake. one lucky mouse!

Clem

[Buslady]

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
Also, PETA objects to ANY killing of animals, not

only for human food but also animal food, suggesting that carnivorous
pets can be sustained with a diet of tofu, bean sprouts, and soy
flakes.

Yeah that's hilarious. There was a lady on Animal Cops who fed her cats
nothing but a vegetarian diet. Well, they were skinny and many
BLIND!!!! Why? Cause they didnt get MEAT! Cats and Dogs are
carnivores...Me thinks someone out to teach PETA what CARNIVORE means.


I used to feed my ball python LIVE. Always. It's natural and that's
what they like, let's them excercise their squeezing muscles.

I dont condone horse killing. I like horses. But it's gonna happen.
I'm passionate about turtle killing, it should never happen. So many
are being taken there won't be any in the next 10-20 years. Esp. the
sea turtles, all of them.

But damn gimme an angus filet, yum. Cattle are considered the dumbest
animal, yeah they are. But it doesn't mean they should be treated
poorly prior to giving up their lives to feed humans. I live around
dairies, they are gross. I feel sorry for the poor dumb cows who have
to walk in hock high poop and mud when it rains. And the stench...I'm
glad they're moving out.
Chickens are pretty stupid, again they dont need to be thrown into
cages really hard and hurt before taken off. I think KFC should take a
look at it.
McDs is looking into humane killing using nitrogen so they go to sleep.
It wont make me wanna eat their crap though.

The only hamburger I trust is In N Out, I wont eat McDs, Carl's, or any
of the popular fast food junk shops...only In N Out.

No animal should suffer prior to death.

[Grainne Gillespie]

Post by Buslady
I used to feed my ball python LIVE. Always. It's natural and that's
what they like, let's them excercise their squeezing muscles.

I feed by ball python frozen/thawed. He still gets to exercise his squeezing
muscles because he wraps himself around the dead mouse and gives it a good
few minutes squeeze to make sure its really dead. He also gets to exercise
his squeezing muscles on my wrist when he pretends he's a pretty bracelet
while I'm typing on my computer

[griffin]

Post by Buslady
But damn gimme an angus filet, yum. Cattle are considered the dumbest
animal, yeah they are.

I beg to differ. I think there are much dumber animals out there than cattle.
In fact, I might place horses higher on the Stupid List than cattle. How about
sheep... oh I think sheep are wayyyy dumber than cattle. And poultry are
definately dumber! I've spent years around all of these critters, and have
been surprised over the years at how not-dumb alot of cattle are.

Post by Buslady
The only hamburger I trust is In N Out, I wont eat McDs, Carl's, or any
of the popular fast food junk shops...only In N Out.

Mmmmmm, In n Out. YUM

griffin

[Ulrik Smed]

Post by Buslady
Yeah that's hilarious. There was a lady on Animal Cops who fed
her cats nothing but a vegetarian diet. Well, they were skinny
and many BLIND!!!! Why? Cause they didnt get MEAT! Cats and
Dogs are carnivores...Me thinks someone out to teach PETA what
CARNIVORE means.

Cats need taurine for their eyes and other things. If the lady intend to
continue using vegetarian catfood, tell her to use some with added taurine.
For example from here:
http://www.vegancats.com/
The taurine is synthetic and they even claim that synthetic taurine is added
to many meat-based foods too, because the natural tautine is partially lost
in production.

[there's a lot of innocent people being crucified]

Post by Jason and Holly Harper
Well now I could see if maybe a kitten was just wandering around a swamp and
came across an alligator, but it sure doesn't seem like it should be legal
to feed gators period. As for the live mice that you feed your snake, I'm a
rat owner, and I do understand the food chain, but I do prefer people to
feed pre-killed rodents. Safer for the snake. In fact I believe it's
illegal in some places to feed live rodents. Now for me, it would be a
personal preference I'd rather see a snake eat a dead mouse than a live one.
It would just bother me too much. But that's another discussion I suppose.
;-) FWIW, I don't think slaughtering horses for meat is cruel either. Do I
support it and would I eat it? No. But if it's done humanely then what
would be cruel about it?

I don't think it's right to impose current notions of political correctness on
wild animals. Yes, I've heard all the arguments in favor of pre-killed mice
and have fed him dead mice on occassion, but it seems to me he gets something
out of the act of killing them. I was once criticized for anthropomorphism
for saying I thought he "enjoyed" killing them, but he really does get excited
when I toss the mice in and he goes for the kill. Those who would mandate
pre-killed meals are probably the same lunatics who feed their cats tofu
instead of meat.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Here at the PETA compound we co-exist in peace with the animals, and we
intermarry. The outside world looks down on a man marrying a llama, but
our love knows no boundaries!"
-- South Park; "Douche and Turd" (2004 election episode)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[R. J. Salvi]

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified

Post by Jason and Holly Harper
Well now I could see if maybe a kitten was just wandering around a swamp and
came across an alligator, but it sure doesn't seem like it should be legal
to feed gators period. As for the live mice that you feed your snake, I'm a
rat owner, and I do understand the food chain, but I do prefer people to
feed pre-killed rodents. Safer for the snake. In fact I believe it's
illegal in some places to feed live rodents. Now for me, it would be a
personal preference I'd rather see a snake eat a dead mouse than a live one.
It would just bother me too much. But that's another discussion I suppose.
;-) FWIW, I don't think slaughtering horses for meat is cruel either.
Do I
support it and would I eat it? No. But if it's done humanely then what
would be cruel about it?

I don't think it's right to impose current notions of political correctness on
wild animals. Yes, I've heard all the arguments in favor of pre-killed mice
and have fed him dead mice on occassion, but it seems to me he gets something
out of the act of killing them. I was once criticized for
anthropomorphism
for saying I thought he "enjoyed" killing them, but he really does get excited
when I toss the mice in and he goes for the kill. Those who would mandate
pre-killed meals are probably the same lunatics who feed their cats tofu
instead of meat.

Caveat: I feed my boids live prey as well. And my snakes do exhibit a
physiological change -- rapid breathing -- when preparing for a strike. I
don't know if it's fear or a rush, but they do get excited (nervous?).

The simplest solution to the problem is to simply not own a pet that eats
other creatures. This is obviously a debate which will have divided camps in
perpetuity, so perhaps it's best to agree to disagree. fwiw...

[Ulrik Smed]

Post by R. J. Salvi
Caveat: I feed my boids live prey as well. And my snakes do
exhibit a physiological change -- rapid breathing -- when
preparing for a strike. I don't know if it's fear or a rush,
but they do get excited (nervous?).

So did all my boa babies when fed prekilled. Got through all the
constricting too, and I never fed live one single time.

[Grainne Gillespie]

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
I was once criticized for anthropomorphism
for saying I thought he "enjoyed" killing them, but he really does get excited
when I toss the mice in and he goes for the kill.

It's probably the smell of the the live mouse that gets him all excited, the
scent of its warm body and the smell of the mouse pee on its fur

My royal (aka Ball) python, Jasper, used to get really excited when I
jiggled and danced his "heated with a hair dryer so he thinks its alive"
defrosted mouse, then suddenly he even lost interest in that. I think he's
too lazy to fall for it any more and he realised that the mouse was dead and
it was much easier to simply glide lazily up to the dead mouse and commence
swallowing, none of that squeezing the dead mouse for ten minutes to make
sure its really dead for him anymore!

As for the morons who whinge about anthropomorphism, you'd think they'd have
more important things to whinge about

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
Those who would mandate
pre-killed meals are probably the same lunatics who feed their cats >tofu
instead of meat.

No, those lunatics wouldn't be mandating pre-killed mice for snakes, they'd
be trying to persuade us that tofu is the natural food for all animals

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Here at the PETA compound we co-exist in peace with the animals, and we
intermarry. The outside world looks down on a man marrying a llama, but
our love knows no boundaries!"
-- South Park; "Douche and Turd" (2004 election episode)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Haven't seen that ep yet, sounds like fun though. I really have to see it
and the one titled "Russell Crowe fighting around the world"

[El Chapo]

Post by Grainne Gillespie

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Here at the PETA compound we co-exist in peace with the animals, and we
intermarry. The outside world looks down on a man marrying a llama, but
our love knows no boundaries!"
-- South Park; "Douche and Turd" (2004 election episode)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Haven't seen that ep yet, sounds like fun though. I really have to see it
and the one titled "Russell Crowe fighting around the world"

It was the 2004 election parody, only in the show the kids were voting on a
new school mascot because PETA terrorists had invaded their pep rally and
declared the South Park Cows cow mascot (actually a person in a cow suit) to
be exploitation of defenseless animals and proceed to throw paint on
everyone. The kids are given a list of possible new mascots to vote on
including Redskins, Chiefs, Indians, etc. (because PETA doesn't care about
people), but as a joke the kids write in "Giant Douche" and "Turd Sandwich"
and those wind up being the top two finalists who the kids must vote on.
Stan gets in trouble because he refuses to vote because he doesn't see what
the difference is between a douche and a turd, that if that's the only
choice he has then there's no point in voting.

[JohnnyMrNinja]

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
I read a newspaper story the other day about a man charged with animal
cruelty for trying to feed a kitten to an alligator (the kitten survived).
Now I just love cats, but I can't see what would be illegal about this,
or what is particularly "cruel" about it. I have a pet gopher snake and
every week or two he gets a meal of 6 or so live adult mice. Why is it
okay to feed live mice but not live cats to reptiles?
Similarly, my state legislature was recently busy trying to draft laws
that would ban slaughtering horses for human consumption. I like
horses just fine, but don't see what the difference is between a horse
and a cow that horses should be protected from being eaten. Keep in
mind that there was never any attempt to ban slaughtering horses for
ANIMAL consumption (e.g. dog food), it was the fact that PEOPLE were
eating them that made the act of slaughtering them "cruel." Just the
other day the newspaper was reporting how a bunch of animal rights
nazis were opposing a plan to send old horses to slaughterhouses,
the activists argued that the horses should be "humanely" euthanized
and given proper burials (!) - apparently that isn't cruel but
eating the flesh of that same dead horse is cruel. Oh, and the U.S.
Congress just proposed a bill that would prohibit federal
inspection of horse meat, essentially making the meat unsellable
in the U.S. market even if the actual slaughter of horses remains
legal.
My question is whether an animal's protected status is based on any
criteria other than its cuteness. Kittens are cuter than mice,
therefore they can't be food for hungry reptiles, while mice aren't
quite so cute so therefore you can feed as many of them as you want
to reptiles.

I think mice are far cuter than kittens, and stay cute their whole
lives. And baby cows compared to baby horses? No contest!

If you had to feed gators, domestic chickens have been bred to the
point of retardation. A "chicken with it's head cut off" will still
run around because the body doesn't use the brain all that much. This
would be a far better idea than a kitten.

Personally, I don't think murder of any kind is justifiable for the
sake of food preference, horse, cow, kitten whatever. So, yeah, ban all
the animals they can.

[Daniel Morrow]

Post by JohnnyMrNinja

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
I read a newspaper story the other day about a man charged with animal
cruelty for trying to feed a kitten to an alligator (the kitten survived).
Now I just love cats, but I can't see what would be illegal about this,
or what is particularly "cruel" about it. I have a pet gopher snake and
every week or two he gets a meal of 6 or so live adult mice. Why is it
okay to feed live mice but not live cats to reptiles?
Similarly, my state legislature was recently busy trying to draft laws
that would ban slaughtering horses for human consumption. I like
horses just fine, but don't see what the difference is between a horse
and a cow that horses should be protected from being eaten. Keep in
mind that there was never any attempt to ban slaughtering horses for
ANIMAL consumption (e.g. dog food), it was the fact that PEOPLE were
eating them that made the act of slaughtering them "cruel." Just the
other day the newspaper was reporting how a bunch of animal rights
nazis were opposing a plan to send old horses to slaughterhouses,
the activists argued that the horses should be "humanely" euthanized
and given proper burials (!) - apparently that isn't cruel but
eating the flesh of that same dead horse is cruel. Oh, and the U.S.
Congress just proposed a bill that would prohibit federal
inspection of horse meat, essentially making the meat unsellable
in the U.S. market even if the actual slaughter of horses remains
legal.

I view peta as being the same as anti-marijuana activists - them all being
people trying to rid the world of something they find politically
unacceptable. I have never smoked any marijuana myself but all of my large
assortment of friends do and I fully support them. They even all do it
legally (at least as far as the state is concerned here in oregon). I plan
to never abuse meat but will always at the very least have some in my diet,
it will be a long time in the future before mankind is able to exactly copy
animal meat be it what ever it is (horse/cow/chicken/fish etc.), and even
then that copy might just as well be the "real" thing because it is such an
exact copy, I love fish myself (to eat) but even have a lot as pets. Later
all!

Post by JohnnyMrNinja

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
My question is whether an animal's protected status is based on any
criteria other than its cuteness. Kittens are cuter than mice,
therefore they can't be food for hungry reptiles, while mice aren't
quite so cute so therefore you can feed as many of them as you want
to reptiles.

I think mice are far cuter than kittens, and stay cute their whole
lives. And baby cows compared to baby horses? No contest!
If you had to feed gators, domestic chickens have been bred to the
point of retardation. A "chicken with it's head cut off" will still
run around because the body doesn't use the brain all that much. This
would be a far better idea than a kitten.
Personally, I don't think murder of any kind is justifiable for the
sake of food preference, horse, cow, kitten whatever. So, yeah, ban all
the animals they can.

[L Sternn]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:07:18 GMT, "there's a lot of innocent people

Post by there's a lot of innocent people being crucified
I read a newspaper story the other day about a man charged with animal
cruelty for trying to feed a kitten to an alligator (the kitten survived).

You don't read very well, do you?

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/4589274/detail.html

(slideshow available - no pics of the gator or the cage tho')

Read it again and see if you can tell us why he was charged.

Here's a clue:

<excerpt>

Humane society officers said Wright picked the kitten up by neck,
shaking it violently as they ordered him to put it down. Instead, they
said he threw Ally the kitten more than 10 feet off the front porch.

"I'm like, I cannot believe he did that in front of me," Detillion
said.

"He didn't just toss her. He threw her as hard as he could. And she
hit the concrete and bounced off."

</excerpt>

[Thomas Silverstein]

Who has them cheap?

Who has Daytona prices for me? What is Wayne's show selling them for?

[Thomas Silverstein]

Who has them cheap?
Who has Daytona prices for me? What is Wayne's show selling them for?

[Alan Truism]

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:12:32 -0700, Kris Kontos

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20060223-114204-1179r.htm
I wish more people would do the minimal amount of research before
arguing things on the Internet (or the Tower of Babble if you
prefer)...

Some people are just too lazy to check their facts before posting
nonsense to the Usernet (tm). I know I always do.

Oh, really? Can you PROVE your claim that "some people are just too
lazy
to check their facts before posting nonsense to the Usenet?" (Just
kidding.) ;)

I can prove his claim.
I just choose not too.

Hmm, what an interesting paradox.

I'm fancy that way.

[Mordechai Housman]

Post by Alan Truism

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:12:32 -0700, Kris Kontos

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20060223-114204-1179r.htm
I wish more people would do the minimal amount of research before
arguing things on the Internet (or the Tower of Babble if you
prefer)...

Some people are just too lazy to check their facts before posting
nonsense to the Usernet (tm). I know I always do.

Oh, really? Can you PROVE your claim that "some people are just too
lazy
to check their facts before posting nonsense to the Usenet?" (Just
kidding.) ;)

I can prove his claim.
I just choose not too.

Hmm, what an interesting paradox.

I'm fancy that way.

And do you fancy that way?

[Alan Truism]

The Red Hook street vendors segment was pretty cool.

I didn't know what to make of the live lobster sushi, and I like sushi.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Post by Alan Truism
The Red Hook street vendors segment was pretty cool.
I didn't know what to make of the live lobster sushi, and I like sushi.

... they are blowin smoke up your ass.

b

[Thomas Silverstein]

Who has them cheap?

Who has Daytona prices for me? What is Wayne's show selling them for?