Discussion:
Kingsnake - soft cyst?
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Jeannie
2008-08-10 05:10:11 UTC
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Hi, our Florida Kingsnake has had a small lump on the side of her neck
for a couple of years, and recently it has enlarged and is quite soft,
like a fluid-filled blister. I does not seem to be related to an
injury. She gets frozen thawed mice, so I doubt it's an abcess.

I would like to pierce it with a sterilized needle and put hydrogen
peroxide on it. Any advice?

Thanks,
Jeannie
Pat Kiewicz
2008-08-10 12:04:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeannie
Hi, our Florida Kingsnake has had a small lump on the side of her neck
for a couple of years, and recently it has enlarged and is quite soft,
like a fluid-filled blister. I does not seem to be related to an
injury. She gets frozen thawed mice, so I doubt it's an abcess.
I would like to pierce it with a sterilized needle and put hydrogen
peroxide on it. Any advice?
Other than to take your pet snake to a qualified veteranarian?

None.
--
Pat K. ('someplace.net' is comcast)

After enlightenment, the laundry.
N Jill Marsh
2008-08-10 13:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeannie
Hi, our Florida Kingsnake has had a small lump on the side of her neck
for a couple of years, and recently it has enlarged and is quite soft,
like a fluid-filled blister. I does not seem to be related to an
injury. She gets frozen thawed mice, so I doubt it's an abcess.
It can still be an abscess. Some critters get them in spite of
perfect husbandry and a careful food supply. I went through several
months of dealing with abscesses on one of my snakes, and my vet
remarked that he regularly saw snakes that were well cared for who
still managed to develop them; there is some amount of stress caused
by captivity and lack of activity and sometimes this is how it is
expressed. He's also had abscesses in his own snakes that he thinks
were caused by a *tiny* impairment in skin integrity, maybe just a
little scrape, and then a *tiny* piece of substrate got in there, and
a problem developed over many months.
Post by Jeannie
I would like to pierce it with a sterilized needle and put hydrogen
peroxide on it. Any advice?
Don't do either of those things. If it's an abscess, the treatment is
to open it and thoroughly clean it, and possibly treat with
antibiotics, but a needle and h2o2 isn't the way to go.

I have treated several cysts by myself, Jeannie, but first I took the
critter to the vet and had a definitive diagnosis and he showed me the
difference in treatment between reptile and mammalian abscesses before
I got adventurous. He was very supportive of me doing treatments at
home, since otherwise costs could easily have run into the four digits
and he was more concerned that the critter get good supervised
treatment than for it to turn into a worse problem for me and the
snake.

My snake's abscess was present for an extended period of time before
it started acting up, several months at least. Once it got bad,
though, it became very difficult to treat - the slow metabolism and
sicky behaviour depress the immune system further, so once it gets out
of hand you can end up with a stubborn problem.

Anyway, if the abscess is "pointing", then it just needs to be slit
open with a sharp scalpel (cutting in between the line of the scales),
the pus removed and the wound thoroughly cleaned. Snake pus is pretty
solid (sort of like rabbit pus, but more so - think toothpaste), so a
needle prick won't open the abscess up enough for it to be completely
extracted. Cleaning out can be done just with betadine, some topical
antibiotic can be applied and the snake should be kept on paper towels
until things are completely healed. Twice daily dilute betadine bath
soaks kept the wound clean and helped to dry things up. Subcutaneous
injections of antibiotic may be necessary, and it's important to keep
the snake warm and eating during recovery, getting and keeping their
metabolism going is the key to healing.

Even if you don't have a dedicated reptile vet in the area, your
regular vet may well be up for this, the principle's exactly the same
as for mammals.

Abcesses that are deeper than just under the skin are much more
difficult to treat, and sometimes what appears to be a surface problem
can extend quite deeply, this is the main reason why you need to have
a vet evaluate the situation.

My little guy's problem took half a dozen drainages/debridements, and
subcutaneous antibiotics and a long time to heal, but he managed just
fine over the process. He was much easier to handle than I expected.
I had him into the vet's twice, and talked to him a couple more times.
The wounds looked absolutely dreadful, but he did recover and the scar
gets better with every shed. I had to soak him during shed to help
him get the skin off in that area, though.

Get to your vet if possible, and best of luck, Jeannie.

nj"abscess queen"m
--
Send reggae, guns & numbers.
Jeannie
2008-08-11 17:33:38 UTC
Permalink
Thanks, Pat and Jill.

I had a wonderful cornsnake several years ago that got an abcess and
it was slit and debrided several times, and I gave him antibiotic
shots, and he died anyway. (On Mother's Day, no less.) The vet never
mentioned keeping him on paper towels, that's a good suggestion; we
used recycled newspaper fluff (CareFresh) and he said that was fine.

I was hoping to avoid all that expense this time, but I'll take her to
a herp vet (we have two nearby) and get a diagnosis, at least. She's
no Diablo, but she's sweet and deserves a chance.

Jill, in one paragraph you mention "the difference in treatment
between reptile and mammalian abcesses" but then several paragraphs
down you say "the principle's exactly the same as for mammals." Did I
miss something? I know the pus is semisolid and the shots need to be
given at an angle between scales, but what else is different (if
anything)?

I hope our new Southern Pine never needs treatment...he's rather jumpy
and is temporarily (?) named Wheezy because he hisses with every
breath for about ten minutes each time you hold him!

Jeannie
Chris McMartin
2008-08-11 22:34:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeannie
shots, and he died anyway. (On Mother's Day, no less.) The vet never
mentioned keeping him on paper towels, that's a good suggestion; we
used recycled newspaper fluff (CareFresh) and he said that was fine.
I like CareFresh too, but it seems to have quite a bit of "dust" in it; I
don't think I'd use it for sick animals.

Chris
www.mcmartinville.com


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
N Jill Marsh
2008-08-12 02:04:32 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:33:38 -0700 (PDT), Jeannie
Post by Jeannie
Jill, in one paragraph you mention "the difference in treatment
between reptile and mammalian abcesses" but then several paragraphs
down you say "the principle's exactly the same as for mammals." Did I
miss something? I know the pus is semisolid and the shots need to be
given at an angle between scales, but what else is different (if
anything)?
No, more or less those things - just crappy writing on my part. The
inflammatory reaction's a bit different because of the
thermoregulation stuff, but that's more or less what I meant - the
abscesses are notably different because of the thickness of the pus
and the scales and such, but the overall treatment is still
draining/debridement, cleaning and wound treatment.

I found that the practical aspects of those things were pretty
similar, once I figured out how to slice open the little beggar.

nj"armour & hammer"m
--
Send reggae, guns & numbers.
Jeannie
2008-08-12 06:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by N Jill Marsh
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:33:38 -0700 (PDT), Jeannie
Post by Jeannie
Jill, in one paragraph you mention "the difference in treatment
between reptile and mammalian abcesses" but then several paragraphs
down you say "the principle's exactly the same as for mammals."  Did I
miss something?  I know the pus is semisolid and the shots need to be
given at an angle between scales, but what else is different (if
anything)?
No, more or less those things - just crappy writing on my part.  The
inflammatory reaction's a bit different because of the
thermoregulation stuff, but that's more or less what I meant - the
abscesses are notably different because of the thickness of the pus
and the scales and such, but the overall treatment is still
draining/debridement, cleaning and wound treatment.
I found that the practical aspects of those things were pretty
similar, once I figured out how to slice open the little beggar.
Ah, got it...thanks. Same with horse feet. Get the vet or farrier to
open the thing, then it's up to you and epsom salts and betadine and
cleanliness. And duct tape! And hopefully a semi-cooperative
critter.

Jeannie
a seasoned pro at the making of duct tape hoof boots--it's an art
N Jill Marsh
2008-08-12 11:51:50 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:08:03 -0700 (PDT), Jeannie
Post by Jeannie
Post by N Jill Marsh
but the overall treatment is still
draining/debridement, cleaning and wound treatment.
Ah, got it...thanks. Same with horse feet. Get the vet or farrier to
open the thing, then it's up to you and epsom salts and betadine and
cleanliness. And duct tape! And hopefully a semi-cooperative
critter.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO APPLY DUCT TAPE HORSE BOOTS TO KINGSNAKE.

nj"art of the drain"m
Jeannie
2008-08-12 20:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by N Jill Marsh
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:08:03 -0700 (PDT), Jeannie
Post by N Jill Marsh
but the overall treatment is still
draining/debridement, cleaning and wound treatment.
Ah, got it...thanks.  Same with horse feet.  Get the vet or farrier to
open the thing, then it's up to you and epsom salts and betadine and
cleanliness.  And duct tape!  And hopefully a semi-cooperative
critter.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO APPLY DUCT TAPE HORSE BOOTS TO KINGSNAKE.
nj"art of the drain"m
Hmm, but inside-out and upside-down they'd make a dandy hide.

Jeannie

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